marriage and divorce

[niros]

What would you say to a 38 years old guy who tells you that in 17 years of marriage he couldn't have sexual intercourse with his wife because of her refusal or reticence, and yet remained loyal to her because he loved her so much? Now he doesn't feel any attraction for his wife and wants to get out of marriage, unable to endure the frustration any more. How would you approach this case?

[Barry]

Boy, that is a tough one. I guess I would begin with seeing if the wife would be willing to meet with me to tell me her side of the story, and then meet with both of them together, and then take it from there. There are obviously some very deep-seated problems in their relationship.

Barry

[moreyck]

I have been in counsellin for 15 years, the one thing I have learned from experience is that  you laways go and look for the root of the problem. Here it is very evident that the wife has some deep root problems as to why there should not be sex in the marriage. Without finding the root like perhaps she was sexuallyy molested or raped, so the Nero assosiation of sex is a big no no.
Also she needs to follow Gods word telling us never to refuse each other sex.
Other than that I beleive God says He hates divorce, the things that seperate us from a healthy relationships.
Would lie to siscuss more

Pastor Chris Morey

[niros]

The wife couldn't endure the pain of sexual contact. At least this is what she says. No molestation or sexual abuse in her family, otherwise a very respectable Christian family. The husband asked if the simple touches of the genitals can be considered a real sexual act and also if in this case we can talk about marriage since what the Bible calls a "union" didn't actually take place. How would you answer to these questions?

[moreyck]

    Hi Niros
I still believe the wife has a mental block conserning the act of sexual intercourse.

It is difficult to assertain why she feels this way if one cannot talk to her.
The Bible clearly teaches that divorce can take place on the grounds of the one partner not wanting to serve the lord, but then even in that case the believer is not to initiate the divorce. I beleieve that God knows and also understands circumstances, it is like the guy who every day beats his wife to a pulp, the wife does not want to divorce because God word says only in unbeliever or adultry, however that means God says the husband can go on beating her teeth out as long as they do not divorce.
I beleive the word of God says we are not under the despensation of the law but of love, and in dire circumstances such as these i belive God would undestand should divorce take place.
You do not say if the lady is a Christian, if so and she loves the lord, she must be prepared to  also obey god's word and do what it says, it does not say DO NOT have intercourse but give clear instruction to married couples see- 1 Corr 7 v 4 and v 5
hope this helps

Chris

The wife couldn't endure the pain of sexual contact. At least this is what she says. No molestation or sexual abuse in her family, otherwise a very respectable Christian family. The husband asked if the simple touches of the genitals can be considered a real sexual act and also if in this case we can talk about marriage since what the Bible calls a "union" didn't actually take place. How would you answer to these questions?

[pastorjonchampaign]

I would have to agree with Chris.  It would seem that there is something that the wife is not telling you.  I would sit them down together first and then deal with them separately to find out what makes them tick.  Also, you should bring them to I Cor. 10:31.  Basically saying that everything we do needs to glorify God.  Since God created sex for in the act of marriage, it is essential (not the most) part of a intimate relationship that a husband and wife should be sharing.  You also might want to find if the husband is being intimate beside wanting sex.  It might be that her body is not responding to his advances because he is not showing love beside wanting the physical.  Just a thought.

JON

[Barry]

The wife couldn't endure the pain of sexual contact.

You think that if that were the case, she would have went to see a medical doctor about this problem by now.

I think there is a lot more to this story than what they are telling you.

[theverner]

the verner says - this problem is not totally new - and many counselors who are allowed to help CAN HELP. My counsel to the man would be - why not try marriage before giving up? Then - with the help of one of our many fine women counselors - talk about the problem including a doctor's info.

Of course - this only works if THEY want to fix their relationship - and since they waited SO LONG - it may NOT be important to them. It SEEMS that the man may have attractions elsewhere . . .at least at some beginning stage.

I am a minister and a psychologist of 40 years - but divorce is very simplistic of an answer - still doesn't solve the problem. Verner Ulrich

[gkstacey]

I have had a bit of experience in counseling as well although experience is no substitute for truth. I agree that divorce is directly contrary to what God has ordained but if I understand this case correctly there is no divorce necessary. Is it not true that this couple has never been married? Is it not true that there has been no consumation of the relationship? It is for this very reason that the Catholic church has consistently through many centureis recognized annulments. In this case, an annulment should not even be necessary. Am I not correct in believing that he can move out and that be the completion of the situation? Now, if she wants the relationship to continue and if he changes his mind and decides to recommit to the relationship then seeing a doctor for physical complications such dysparenuia or seeing a counselor or counselors of various types might be in order. I would want to know what his payoff has been to stay in a relationship for seventeen years without a marriage commitment and with no physical involvement. I think that you are all right. There is more to this story but I would focus less on what is going on with her and more what is going on with him. After, he initiated the question. Why is he wanting to separate now? Why has he stayed around so long? He seems far more interesting to me than she does.

[theverner]

the verner says

Apparently there WAS sexual contact or "pain" wouldn't be brought up - sexual counseling can help - but only if the two can begin a "faith relationship" of God's structure of sexual intercourse. FIRST - they need to believe it is possible. SECOND - they need to find someone who can help whom THEY TRUST. THIRD - they need to repent of not living in faith of God's design for marriage for this long. FOURTH - they need counsel for several OTHER problems which brought this on in the first place.

It IS possible this was never a marriage . . .but not "probable" - I have seen some get an annulment over this - but they lied to do it - not God's plan.

A Doctor needs to weigh in - first . . .then counsel - I am praying for this couple . . .Verner Ulrich

[gkstacey]

Verner, you may well be correct in your assessment that there had to have been sexual contact to discover the 'pain' but it is entirely possible also that she was simply lying to him. That is an issue to be discovered. A simple approach might be to proceed with trying to engage the couple in a therapeutic intervention but clinicly speaking from what we have she has not been engaged at all. Until and unless she engages this is a moot discussion. What we have is a man with a complaint, not a couple. Could she be forced into counseling? Certainly not legally. If this were a concern for her, I would guess she would be seeking help and we could be discussing what to do about this woman with a marriage problem. As it is, we have only the man's side of the issue.

[Rapha_El]

In over 25 years of marriage counseling I would say there maybe a couple of things that may be the problem. 1. It could be a medical problem, painful intercourse-- something medical. 2. I have run into those who have come from a 'ultra-religious' setting that made sexual intercourse as a sin, dirty, and/or just for procreation.
Several years ago, Barbara and I went to a 'Marriage Encounter' weekend and there were several couples there who were in that #2 category.
The only way you will find out is by confronting the wife as to why no sex in marriage and whether she fits category #1 or #2. 

[Pastor Larry]

Hola from Mexico.
I agree with most everything others have said on this topic and appreciate the time you guys spend on this. 

I would ask this guy:  "Why did you wait for 17 years to bring the subject up?" 

Why now? Is it that now, he wants to get away from his wife, maybe because he met someone else? Why bring it up now after so long? He says, that he stayed with her for 17 years because he loved her so much.  I would ask: ... What did he ever do to help her in this obvious problem?  Who did he speak to? How many counselors and Doctors did he see to help his wife?  Again, why does he bring this up now?  What is he not telling you?

Refusing to have sex is in my opinion a very serous thing in marriage when you are young. Is this woman converted(a Believer)?  If not, would she not have been showing that she did not consent to live with her husband as based in 1 Cor. 7:13? 
What do you do when the unconverted does not consent to live with you? Is that not grounds for divorce? Then... if so, why did he not bring it up 17 years ago? Why would anyone want to live with someone who did not show any physical contact?  I think there is something else here,don't you?

For much more information about Divorce and Remarriage, please check our statement of belief at: http://www.ucg.org/papers/divrem_belief.pdf

On page 4 and 7 you can read about the 2nd reasons for divorce allowed in the bible. I believe that the second cause, that is: "Fraud" can be applied here if this woman is an "unbeliever".  Of course, i would still want may original question answered also.

[bdonpap]

 

The wife couldn't endure the pain of sexual contact. At least this is what she says. No molestation or sexual abuse in her family, otherwise a very respectable Christian family.

I can't imagine that everybody is telling the whole truth.  I would also feel pretty certain that he has now developed an interest in somebody else.

[Jeff Thomas]

There's no telling what's going on in that marriage. I would have to agree that there is more to the story than what is being told.She needs some professional help most likely and he needs to be reminded of his vows made before God that he would love her for better or worse. I agree with some of the other guys. I think he's found him a little homewrecker and he wants to forget his committment to his family so he can get laid. Sorry about that but I seldom like to beat around the bush. You can pschoanalize it all you want but that's most likely the reality of the situation. Explore that and don't go too easy on the guy.
Jeff Thomas